Author Topic: Adding New Types To The Fleet (E.g. Aerosoft Airbus X)?  (Read 24245 times)

Chris Liu

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Re: Adding New Types To The Fleet (E.g. Aerosoft Airbus X)?
« Reply #15 on: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 10:53 »
To be honest, I'd never really thought of going smaller than the J41 (which is 29 seats). I'm not against the idea in principle but it would be something of a scheduling nightmare, especially at Barra because the tides come in to it; so I'd have to weigh up the time invested against the somewhat limited appeal in the VA marketplace.

I'd quite like a Dornier 228 if a decent one came out, it's a 19 seater like the B1900C/D but you get STOL and rough field capability, plus it has TPE331 engines like the J41.

However in the short term we really need to size up a bit to broaden our appeal and enable longer routes; regularly flying a Q400 from Edinburgh to Lisbon isn't realistic. It all goes back to what I said in http://viaintercity.com/forums/general-discussion/adding-the-upcoming-aerosoft-crj700900/msg498/#msg498 essentially
...there are too many indistinguishable VAs out there and I'm glad we're distinctive. However, owing to a 100 KTAS deficit versus jet aircraft, actively pursuing a prop only policy seriously limits route expansion opportunities from our existing operating bases. As it stands, we can't reach beyond Northern Spain from any of our bases because props just don't cut it on routes in excess of 700 nm as the flight durations get lengthy. However, I would like to stress that if Intercity gets some jets, they will be used for expansion, not replacement...

...I've no intention of taking Intercity beyond shorthaul, narrowbody territory and that we will always remain essentially a regional airline, even if we do end up with a smattering of mainline jets to give us better reach. I hate longhaul flying and I do not want to preside over a VA that does long flights!
« Last Edit: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 11:17 by Chris Liu »

Steve Prowse

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Re: Adding New Types To The Fleet (E.g. Aerosoft Airbus X)?
« Reply #16 on: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 12:14 »
Yeah I guess routes could be a problem, but no more than planning for a A320.   The other thing that interests me is; why do you think you'd get more members if you introduce a jet airframe here at Intercity.  The Twotter has a large following; I think.  I believe many virtual pilots like to fly for a known airline, I am also a member of a VA that has around 2000 members, recently we've lost the all the cargo flights and frames,  and soon we'll lose the B737...but, oh and we had the Dash3-300 that went too, all of that change has not stopped a waiting list of around 288 with 12 vacancies as I write this, my point is people seem to like flying for a known airline no matter what....in short I don't think adding a jet here will make that much difference to membership.  But, having interesting routes with difficult landings etc and different/unusual airframes,if compared to the rest, couple that with a well run and organised VA, I think, will interest a select bunch of simmers not in the thousands but it'll be a great bunch and VA all the same.  Just my thoughts. 
« Last Edit: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 13:33 by Steve Prowse »

Chris Liu

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Re: Adding New Types To The Fleet (E.g. Aerosoft Airbus X)?
« Reply #17 on: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 14:36 »
By the way Steve, we already have a limited Highlands and Islands service from Edinburgh using the Jetstream 41, so in the meantime you could give those a go :) There's daily flights to Orkney, Shetland, the Outer Hebrides and Inverness.

To be honest, our experiences with the J41 is what's deterring us getting smaller aircraft; the J41 makes up over 20% of scheduled flights but not even 5% of those actually logged! This is despite the fact a high quality PMDG rendition is available for FSX, which has a loyal following. And they are more work to schedule because they fly shorter legs and some airports aren't big enough for daily service, so instead of flying one schedule most of the week they can require a different one each day!
« Last Edit: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 16:38 by Chris Liu »

Tobias Gruber

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Re: Adding New Types To The Fleet (E.g. Aerosoft Airbus X)?
« Reply #18 on: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 17:55 »
how about waiting till aerosoft releases the A318 instead of using the 19 or 20? or even the 737-600...they're jets but pretty much as small as it gets in that realm...lufthansa still uses a massive ammount of -300s and -500s of the 737 on their regional routes and they plan to keep them for a long while to come so it wouldnt be too far off the mark


we also always have to consider the availability of addons for flightsim...and i doubt very much that there will be any sort of good bombardier C-series or Embraers (except for the god awful wilco) coming anytime soon








also...to play devils advocate here....a certain japanese airline had great success running domestic operations with 747-400Ds a while ago soooooo..... :-X
(kidding of course!)


Tobias

Chris Liu

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Re: Adding New Types To The Fleet (E.g. Aerosoft Airbus X)?
« Reply #19 on: Sat 26 Apr 2014, 14:13 »
In terms of sim considerations, I think the Aerosoft A318 is being sold as an expansion to the standard AXE package, which I worry will make it expensive with a resultant low uptake. The 737-600 is part of PMDG's NGX basepack and there's always the iFly for the FS9 guys so it's a better choice from a sim perspective.

As for real-life considerations, neither the A318 or B736 are popular, with less than 100 of each built. Essentially they're a shrink too far and hence uneconomical; they're burdened with a superstructure designed for a much higher MTOW so you end up with full-size costs but regional jet capacity. That's why the E190/195 has outsold them both by an order of magnitude, but as you've mentioned the downside is that the Wilco/feelThere versions aren't that brilliant.

So that puts us back to choosing between the A319 and E190/195
« Last Edit: Sat 26 Apr 2014, 15:00 by Chris Liu »

Tobias Gruber

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Re: Adding New Types To The Fleet (E.g. Aerosoft Airbus X)?
« Reply #20 on: Sat 26 Apr 2014, 15:33 »
yeah fully agree on the 318 and 736...fun to fly but not very famous with airlines




as for aerosoft: the A319 and A318 will be a single expansion pack for the AXE wich is currently in development so you end up paying for it regardless...however if you already own the AXE you will get the 18/19 expansion at a discount




regards
Tobi

Sergio De Ceglie

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Re: Adding New Types To The Fleet (E.g. Aerosoft Airbus X)?
« Reply #21 on: Tue 16 Sep 2014, 02:29 »
With Aerosoft releasing their A318/319 package next week (Sept 22) I thought I'd resurrect this thread.

I guess the points made about the A318 a couple of posts back by Chris are still vaild, although the Aerosoft A318/319 will be sold as a separate standalone package and not as an expansion to the A320/321 package (an upgrade price will be available though to existing A320/321 customers). The A318 also fly's in/out of London City (not sure if it did back when this thread was first created).

As it's been a while has any more thought been put towards the plans for a future jet aircraft? Would a decision to introduce a jet tie in with the next schedule update for Autumn?

Cheers,
Serge


Chris Liu

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Re: Adding New Types To The Fleet (E.g. Aerosoft Airbus X)?
« Reply #22 on: Tue 16 Sep 2014, 09:34 »
As it's been a while has any more thought been put towards the plans for a future jet aircraft? Would a decision to introduce a jet tie in with the next schedule update for Autumn?

That's the plan but at the moment I am struggling to find time, I've made a start on the demand calculations for new destinations but nothing has been scheduled yet. It will be Airbus A319/A320 out of Düsseldorf to start with, other airports to follow. Decision on LCY has been deferred but the A318 is unlikely, for reasons discussed previously. I've also got to paint the Aerosoft A319/A320 models and I'll probably do the BBS and Project Airbus later.
« Last Edit: Tue 16 Sep 2014, 09:51 by Chris Liu »

Sergio De Ceglie

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Re: Adding New Types To The Fleet (E.g. Aerosoft Airbus X)?
« Reply #23 on: Tue 16 Sep 2014, 14:51 »
Yeah, never enough time is there! Sounds like a fair bit of work ahead of you.

You mention A319/320. Does that mean either the A319 or A320 will join the fleet (you're still yet to make a decision) or both types?

I should probably stop asking questions so you can get on with it.  :D

Cheers,
Serge

Keith Giannoni

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Re: Adding New Types To The Fleet (E.g. Aerosoft Airbus X)?
« Reply #24 on: Tue 16 Sep 2014, 14:57 »
Good thread! Always an emotive issue. I joined the VA for the Dash and JS41. If the 'jet age' is to come, then let's not ignore the PMDG 737 700 also. (Couldn't resist, sorry).

Looking at other VAs, the E190 has not been greatly successful as they have bigger aircraft included such as 777 (and the new PMDG 777 ER). So I  can understand this.

We are a small VA with two great aircraft. If we are to expand, I would prefer to see hubs in say Italy and Spain (Bologna and Barcelona ) to enable more destinations. I am sure many of our members have purchased payware airports that are not available for Intercity. This would introduce more variety in the timetables and, more importantly, advertise our VA (online flying) in more countries. We could still keep flights to two hours but then include airports such as Malta who have recently launched their own IVAO region.

In any event, whatever jet aircraft is decided, we could have a review in say six months to see how popular it is amongst the pilots.

Keith

Sergio De Ceglie

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Re: Adding New Types To The Fleet (E.g. Aerosoft Airbus X)?
« Reply #25 on: Tue 16 Sep 2014, 16:36 »

Like you Keith, I also joined because of the VA offering a couple of great turboprops. The selection of routes was also enticing. I've been around for a few months now and although I'm still enjoying what's on offer I get the occasional feeling of wanting something new, whether that be a new aircraft added to the fleet or new destinations to fly to.


I own the PMDG 737NGX so if I was to be selfish my preference for a new jet aircraft would be the 737-800 however I understand and accept the reasons for not adding this aircraft. As long as there is an excellent payware model available for whatever aircraft is chosen I will be happy and it looks like that will be the case with the A320 as the Aerosoft A320 looks to tick that box along with the yet to be released FSLabs version.


Looking at the smaller side of things, I thought the Twin Otter was an interesting suggestion especially as there is an excellent payware model available from Aerosoft and it keeps with the turboprop theme of the VA. Again, I understand and accept the reasons for not adding this aircraft but I can always hope.  :)


I like your suggestions of additional hubs at Bologna and Barcelona Keith to open up some great Mediterranean airports on offer. I reckon another in Athens would also be cool as there are some excellent payware sceneries of Greek Island airports so some Q400 island hopping would be cool. We're probably getting ahead of ourselves here though as only a fraction of the current flights are getting flown so imagine flooding the schedule with even more. On the flipside it may attract more pilots.


Anyway, it looks like Chris is striving for quality over quantity which is what makes this an excellent VA. I look forward to what lies ahead.


Cheers,
Serge

Chris Liu

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Re: Adding New Types To The Fleet (E.g. Aerosoft Airbus X)?
« Reply #26 on: Wed 17 Sep 2014, 00:00 »
Barcelona and Milan are both on the future hub short list, but new bases will come after the new jets

Paul Regimbal

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Re: Adding New Types To The Fleet (E.g. Aerosoft Airbus X)?
« Reply #27 on: Wed 17 Sep 2014, 01:31 »
It's always an interesting debate about expanding bases and adding aircraft.  When Chris went to create this VA, the two Chris' and I agreed that  we wanted this VA to be realistic (follow real-world rules and guidelines - believe me Chris Liu wouldn't have it otherwise), be believable in the sense that you could see this VA as a real airline in the real world, follow business principles (operating routes that make sense, that would bring in a profit), and be an airline that real world passengers would use and admire.  This airline would be an airline that was affordable but always had a sense of class.  It would have capable and passionate pilots.  We would offer the best to the best to be the best.


That said, growth is a great thing but too much growth or growth for the sake of growth is not a good principle in the real world.


The thought of adding a 3rd aircraft to the fleet has been ongoing for a while.  It was agreed that a jet would be a good candidate and that sentiment seems to be echoed with the members at Intercity.


Nothing that will be done in the this airline will ever be done without putting a proper full effort into it.  Both Chris Liu and Chris Hulme put a tremendous amount of effort to making this virtual airline something to be proud of.


I look forward to sharing this next chapter of this great VA with the great pilots in this VA.  Your stories, pictures, and day to day is what makes this airline worth operating.  It's exciting to see the continuing growth and participation.  Keep the comments coming as your inputs are always heavily regarded in any decisions that are made. :)

Yves Kaulitz

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Re: Adding New Types To The Fleet (E.g. Aerosoft Airbus X)?
« Reply #28 on: Wed 17 Sep 2014, 15:06 »
Hello everyone,

why not taking into consideration the CRJ700. Almost everybody has one (FSX standard aircraft) and there is as well a payware version out there. I don't know whether the payware is good or bad.

Yves

Chris Liu

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Re: Adding New Types To The Fleet (E.g. Aerosoft Airbus X)?
« Reply #29 on: Wed 17 Sep 2014, 15:41 »
why not taking into consideration the CRJ700. Almost everybody has one (FSX standard aircraft) and there is as well a payware version out there
We did consider the CRJ700, but the payware version is very average and it's not approved for London City operations, more info at http://viaintercity.com/forums/general-discussion/adding-the-upcoming-aerosoft-crj700900/msg500/#msg500

We'll probably get some variety of regional jet later to expand London City, but I need to sort the Airbus out first.