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Steep approaches in a Q400 - Landing at EGLC

Started by Ron Kurz, Jan 31, 2016 07:12

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Ron Kurz (1390)

Hi Y'all


I'm in desperate need to get some help for making nice (and safe) landings at EGLC. Mine tend to attract all sorts of plane spotters putting down bets: "will his landing gear hold up this time - or not..?" - not to speak of all the passenger complaints >:( .

So if anyone of you is making consistent good approaches and touch downs in LCY, me (and my pax ) would more than welcome any advice, pointers or tutorials on landing a steep approach in a Q400.

BTW, same also applies to Lugano, Switzerland (6.5°)

Thanx!!!

Ron

Chris Liu (1001)

#1
Chris H has been flying in to LCY quite a lot lately and told me did a greaser very recently, so he might be best placed to comment. In my experience, you must be fully configured (full flaps and gear down) before descending on the glideslope. The flare just takes practise, it is difficult to begin with. Remember not to reduce thrust during the flare, as it reduces lift.

Chris Hulme (1003)

Hi Ron

I'm currently away from the PC and so unable to reply in full but I'll type up my hints and tips from my experiences tomorrow. I flew there yesterday and was rather impressed as I flared perfectly and got a nice landing rate, better than my normal crash and bounce! If I can I'll try and make a video and upload to YouTube.

Ron Kurz (1390)

Thanx Chris!


I've been doing some more research and spend yesterday afternoon doing base training and circuits at LCY which helped a lot (practice does do the trick ;) ). I've come to the conclusion to not trying to chase the approach speed, but put a lot more emphasis on descent rate with (very) active use of throttle and 'aiming' for the threshold with the stick. And as Chris L pointed out, being in full landing configuration before the FAF definitely is 3/4th of the ticket!
Looking forward to you input  :D !!


Cheers,


Ron

Chris Hulme (1003)

Quote from: Ron Kurz on Feb 01, 2016 08:08
Thanx Chris!


I've been doing some more research and spend yesterday afternoon doing base training and circuits at LCY which helped a lot (practice does do the trick ;) ). I've come to the conclusion to not trying to chase the approach speed, but put a lot more emphasis on descent rate with (very) active use of throttle and 'aiming' for the threshold with the stick. And as Chris L pointed out, being in full landing configuration before the FAF definitely is 3/4th of the ticket!
Looking forward to you input  :D !!


Cheers,


Ron


You definitely need to be configured before FAF, Flap 35 and Cond Levers Max. I find using the ILS helps as when the final descent starts it can run away with you, so having the ILS on along with LOC and GS will fly the airplane whilst you get the speed to where it needs to be. I find its very easy to fluctuate the speed and also the glideslope, and it seems that practice does make perfect. Always keep your eyes on the touchdown zone, where you eyes are is where your brain will guide the plane. The charts say that there is a speed limit of 160 kts until D5.0 on RWY 09 and D6.0 on RWY 27. This is well before the glideslope starts so there's plenty of time to slow down. When you get down to 500 ft it all seems to go pretty quick there. I don't have any tips for the flare, other than flare slightly earlier than you would on a normal approach, but be aware that if you over flare it'll float down the runway, or if you under flare or flare too late, you'll get a really firm touchdown, or potentially a nose wheel first touchdown. Its also worth a mention that there are 2 sets of high intensity lights just after the touchdown zone, if you go past these you must go around.





Getting the flare right seems to be the hardest bit, if you leave it too late the aircraft just doesn't go up at all and you get a "flat" landing, so Id say practice makes perfect!


I will try and make a video, just don't have the time at the moment! Wish I had of videoed my landing the other night!

Ron Kurz (1390)

Thank you very much for the intel Chris - some really good pointers there. what to concentrate on. In  the end it really does boil down to practice!
Circuits - circuits - circuits  :P  - just like in the real world.


The Q400 is by far my favorite FS aircraft to fly, mainly because it is such a challenge and Majestic have done such a fantastic job with it. It's not a forgiving aircraft to land in the first place, but steep approaches really raises the bar.


Speaking of steep approaches: ever thought of adding Lugano, Switzerland LSZA as a destination? Switzerland is split up into a German, French and Italien part. We already can fly to Zürich, Geneva and Sion - Lugano would complete it as far as the reagions are concerned.


I'll try to make a video as well, IF I ever get to reasonable consistent landings in LCY.  ;)


Cheers!

Chris Liu (1001)

#6
Actually I intended to add Lugano for this winter's schedule (along with quite a few other airports) but thus far haven't managed to sort it, sorry! Scheduling any flight at London City is time consuming because everything is so complicated there.

Ron Kurz (1390)

Fantastic! Then I'll start practicing at LSZA as well: Glide path 6.5°!

Chris Hulme (1003)

Hi Ron


Just for your info, I have compiled a Steep Apprach Guidance post after doing some reader has. It seems to get a perfect flare you need to start your flare at 50ft! That's what's recommended by a real world operator anyway!


http://viaintercity.com/forums/bombardier-dash-8-q400-(dhc-8-402q)/steep-approach-guidance/

Ron Kurz (1390)

Chris,

thanks for the great Intel.
I've been doing quite a lot of circuits around LCY and the amount of plane spotters that used to gather every time I came in for a landing has vastly diminished.

Cheers and thanks again,